அதிசயம் ஆனால் உண்மை !!
Saturday, December 3, 2005 at 1:29PM ச்ன் டீவீ நேயர்கள் "சிதம்பர ரகசியம்" சீரியல் பார்த்திருப்பீர்கள் என்று நினைக்கிறேன். இன்த தொடர் "நாடி" ஜோசியத்தை மையமாக கொண்டது.
1996'ல் நான் அமெரிக்காவில் படிப்பை முடித்துகொண்டு இருந்தேன். அப்போது காலிங் கார்டு (calling card) உபயோகித்து இந்தியாவில் இருந்த என் பெற்றோறை கூப்பிட்டேன். அப்போதய வழக்கம் போல ச்ண்டை !!
என் பெற்றோர் என் கை ரேகைக்ளை தபாலில் அனுப்பு என்றார்கள்.. எனக்கு ஜாதகம், ஜோசியம் மீது வெருப்பு !! எனக்கென்று ஒரு பெண் இந்த உலகில் பிரந்து இருந்தால் அவளை இந்த ஜோசியர்களால் ஏன் இன்னும் கண்டு பிடிக்க முடியவில்லை ?
இந்த சண்டை ஒரு பத்து பதினைந்து நிமிடங்கள் நீடித்திருக்கும். அப்போது என் "அட்வைசர்" (thesis advisor -குரு) ரூமுக்குள் வந்தார். அமெரிக்கரானாலும் இந்திய கலாசாரத்தை பற்றி நிறைய விஷயங்கள் தெரிந்தவர். "இந்த சின்ன சின்ன விஷயங்களுக்காக ச்ண்டை போட்டு என்ன சுகத்தை கண்டாய் ? கை ரேகை தானே கேட்கிறார்கள் ? குடுத்துவிடு ! அவர்களுக்கு அதை வைத்து ஏதேனும் தெரிந்தால் அதை அவர்களோடு வைத்துக்கொள்ள சொல்.. " என்றார்.. அவரே போய் ஒரு காகிதத்தில் என் லாபில் இருந்த இங்க்கை வைத்து என் கை ரேகைக்ளை பதிவு செய்தார்.. ஒரு கவரில் அந்த காகிதத்தை போட்டு என் வீட்டு விலாசத்தை எழுத வைத்து "நான் வீட்டுக்கு போகும் போது இதை தபால் பெட்டியில் போட்டு விடுகிறேன்" என்றார். அன்று என் அட்வைசரிட்மிருந்து நான் கற்றுக்கொண்ட பாடம் "சின்ன விஷயங்களுக்காக யாரோடும் சண்டை போட்க்கூடாது !"..
அந்த தபால் போய் சேர்ந்ததா இல்லையா என்றுகூட நான் என் பெற்றோறை கேட்கவில்லை ! சுமார் பத்து மாதங்களுக்கு பிரகு நான் இந்தியா சென்றேன். அப்போது என் கை ரேகை கிடைத்ததா என்று கேட்டேன்..உடனே அப்பா ஒரு ஆடியோ காஸட்டை எடுத்து வந்தார்.
அந்த காஸெட்டில் இருந்த விஷயங்களை என்னால் மரக்கவே முடியாது !! என் பெயர், என் தந்தை, தாய், பெயர், என் உடன் பிறப்புகளின் எண்ணிக்கை, என் படிப்பு, என் முழு ஜாதகம் (எந்த கட்டத்தில் எந்த கிரகம் உள்பட !!), திருமணத்தை பற்றிய என் எண்ணங்கள், என்று என்னை திகைக்க வைக்கும் அளவுக்கு குறிப்புகள் !! இத்தனை விஷயங்களும் என் கை ரேகையிலிருந்து ??
இதில் பிரமிப்பிற்க்குறிய விஷயம் என்ன தெரியுமா ? "இவனுடைய பலன்கள் இப்போது உங்களுக்கு தெரிந்தாலும், இவனுடைய இருபத்திஐந்தாம் வயதுக்கு பின் தான் இவன் தெரிந்து கொள்வான்" என்று சொல்லி இருந்தார்கள் !
இது வரை அந்த காஸெட்டில் இருந்த விவரங்கள் பொய்யாகவில்லை !!
இது எப்படி சாத்தியமாகும் ? இதைப்பற்றி நான் அவ்வளவாக சிந்திக்க மாட்டேன். என் வாழ்கை ஏர்கனவே நிர்ணயிக்கப்பட்டது என்று என்னால் ஒப்புக்கொள்ள முடியவில்லை !! ஆனால் விஞ்ஞானரீதியில் இது என்னை பிரமிக்க வைக்கிரது !
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Visithra Version :
Sun TV viewers "chidambara ragasiyam" serial paathiruppengannu ninaikkaren. indha serial "Naadi" josiyaththa base panni eduththadhu.
1996 : naan padippai mudiththu kondu irundhen. calling card use panni en pettrorai indiavil koopitten. vazhakkam pola phonil sandai dhan. En appa amma an kai reegaigalai mailil anuppa sonnargal. enakku indha josiyam, jaadagam vishayame pidikkadhu. oru veruppu. enakkendru indha vulagil oruththu irukkiraal endraal avalai kandu pidikka indha josiyargaal enn ivvalavu neeram eduththu koLgiraargal ?
appodhu en professor roomukkul vandhar. Enna ore saththam ? thagaraaru ? (although s American , knew a lot about India, Indian culture, Me !) and was very practical. If it is just a fingerprint, just send it. why bother arguing with them. Goes on to take the ink pad in my office, put my thumbprint on a piece of paper and makes me write my address on an envelope.. I will mail this on my way home.. go back to work.
An important lesson I learnt that day "dont argue over silly things"..
did not even bother to check if the fingerprints reached India or not. almost ten months later I went to India. kai rEgai enna aachu ? I asked my parents. engappa udane oru audio cassetteai eduthtu vandhar..
andha cassetteil irundha vishayangalai ennal marakkave mudiyaadhu. en peyar, en amma appa peyar, enakku eththanai thambi thangaigal, eththanai thaai maamakkal, en padippu, velai, kalyaanaththai paththi en ennangal, ellam thulliyamaga sollappattu irundhadhu. idhellam en kai regailirundhu ??
idhil bramikka vaikkum vishayam enna theriyumaa ? "ivanudaya palangal ungalukku ippodhu therindhaalum, ivanukku avanudaiya 25aam pirandhanaalukku piragu dhan theriyum" endu sonnargal. adhuvum unmai !!
indruvarai, andha tape-il irukkum vishayam ellam paliththulladhu. How is this possible ? en vaazhkai erkanave nichchayikkappatta oru vishayama ? ennal adhai oppukkolla mudiyavillai ! I dont think about this tape much unless there is some major event in my life ! irundhalum, scientific-a pakkum podhu idhu ennai biramikka vaikkiradhu.. Just truly amazing!!
Reader Comments (49)
Thats very true sir..
This time when i went to India,i was taken to a "naadi josiyam" center..Though i was skeptical about it,i just cudnt believe when the "astrologer" gave my facts correctly.
May be our future is pre-determined !
You may want to post this in main blog !!
I guess,its a good topic to disuss !!
Prabhu sir, i will write it up tonight.. if baby allows me..
thanks
I've heard about Naadi Josiyam..and several people have also recommended it to me.
I have to experience it to comment about it...In the meantime..I am surprised that it made you think a little bit in favor of it.! I've seen several people talk about this.
If this is true..then the Nadi Josiar's can solve all crimes.!!! If this is true..why didn't some corporate giant make use of it to build an empire.!! No ide.!!
But...we should be careful here..someone ( our own guys living here) will patent it.!! :)
naryanan sir, i have been laughing so much after i read your comment.. reminded me of "minority report" another movie that actually made me think of this tape..
solving crime ahead of time !!
spielberg naadi josiyam paththaro ?
:)
simple Mr.Sundar Narayanan>
ask your father how they have arrived the facts about you in the casette...
without asking any questions if they could arrive the facts with your fingerprints only then we can believe..but that is not happening...
சுந்தர்,
மேலே முத்து அவர்கள் சொல்லியிருப்பது போல கைரேகையுடன் மற்ற விபரங்களையும் அவர்கள் கேட்பதுண்டு - இதற்கு அவர்கள் சொல்லும் காரணம் சரியான சுவடியைக் கண்டுபிடிக்க வேண்டும் என்பதே.
அதே போல், உங்களது பிறந்த தேதியையும் உங்களது பெற்றோரிடமிருந்து வாங்கியிருப்பார்கள். அதை வைத்து ஜாதகம் (ஓரளவுக்கு) கணித்து விட முடியும். லக்கினம் போன்றவைகள் மாறும், ஆனால் நமக்கிருக்கும் பரவசத்தில் லக்கினம், தசாம்சம் போன்றவையும் சரியாக வந்திருக்கிறதா என்பதைக் கவனிப்பதில்லை.
மற்றபடி, இவையெல்லாம் போகஸ் என்று எனக்குப் பட்டாலும், அவர்கள் சொல்லும் சில விஷயங்கள் அப்படியே உண்மையாக அமைவது ஆச்சர்யமே.
ஜாதகம் தெரிந்த நன்பர் ஒருவர் என்னிடம் சொன்னது, அவர்கள் நாளை வைத்து ஜாதகம் கணித்து விடுகின்றனர். மிகச் சிறந்த நாடி சோதிட நிபுணர்கள் நேரில் வருகிறவரின் நாடியென்றால் அங்கலட்சனங்களை வைத்து எந்த கிரகத்தின் சார்பு மேலோங்கியிருக்கிறது என்று யூகித்து கிட்டத்தட்ட ஜாதகத்தை முழுவதுமாகவே கணித்துவிடுகின்றானர்.
ஜாதகத்தை கணித்த பின்னர், இவர்களிடம் இருக்கும் ஃபார்முலாவை வைத்து (அனைத்து பாரம்பரிய நாடி சோதிட நிபுணர்கள் அனைவருமே வள்ளூவர்கள்-வைத்தீஸ்வரன்கோவில் பகுதியைச் சேர்ந்தவர்கள் என்பது கவனிக்கத் தக்கது) மிகச்சரியாக பலன்களைக் கூறிவிடுகின்றனர்.
நன்பர் சொன்னது, சூட்சுமம் அந்த ஃபார்முலாவில் தான் உள்ளது. மற்றபடி, பெயர், குடும்பத்தினரின் பெயர் போன்றவையெல்லாம் புரட்டு வேலைதான் - எனக்கும் அதுவே சரியெனப் படுகிறது.
Refer to Naadi Jodhidam at this website.
http://www.geocities.com/kadaaramweb/index2.html
சுந்தர்
இது எல்லாம் சுத்த கப்ஸா, படித்த நீங்களும் இதை நம்புவதால் தான், ஆட்சியாளர்களும் தைரியமாக இதை கையில் எடுத்துக் கொள்கிறார்கள்.
நான் நாள்,கிழமை, ஜாதகம், ஜாதி எதுவும் பார்க்கவில்லை. என் திருமணம் நடை பெற்ற கிழமை கூட சனிக்கழமை. இருந்தாலும் நானும் என் மனைவியும் சந்தோஷமாக வாழ்ந்து வருகிறோம்.(மற்றவர்களைப் போல)
தயவு செய்து இது மாதிரியான மூடநம்பிக்களை தவிருங்கள்
விஜய்
பெங்களூர்
முத்து, நீங்கள் சொல்வது சரியாக இருக்கலாம். நான் அங்கு செல்லவில்லை. என் பெற்றோறிடமிருந்து அவர்கள் தகவல்களை வாங்கி இருக்கலாம்.
நேச குமார், இது வரை எனக்கு இவ்வளவு அழகான ஒரு "explanation" யாரும் அளிக்கவில்லை !!
anonymous , உங்கள் "link" குக்கு சென்றேன். ஆனால் "error" வந்தது !! அந்த article "geocities" site-இல் இப்போது இல்லை !!
விஜய், நான் எழுதியதை சரியாக படிக்கவில்லை என்று நினைக்கிறேன்.. வியப்பாக இருக்கிறது என்று தான் சொன்னேனே தவிர "எனக்கு சாதகமாக இருந்தும்" அதை என்னால் ஏற்றுக்கொள்ள முடியவில்லை என்று சொல்லி இருந்தேன்..
ஆனால் உங்களுக்கு ஒரு அறிவுரை, படித்த நீங்களே ந்ம்பலாமா என்று கேட்டிருந்தீங்கள்...
நான் படித்தவன் தான்.. ஆனால் படித்து பட்டம் வாங்கிவிட்டதால் "எனக்கு புரியாத" விஷயங்கள் அனைத்தையும் "மூட நம்பிக்கை" என்று சொல்லுவது படித்தவனுக்கு அழகல்ல !! எதையுமே தீர விசாரணை செய்து, அதன் பின் முடிவு செய்ய வேண்டும்.
இந்த "நாடி" பற்றி எனக்கு போதிய அளவு "data" இல்லாததால் அது வியப்பிற்க்குறிய விஷயமாக உள்ளது !!
To sum it up, either prove "naadi" to be bogus with the scientific method of "hypothesis, experiment, result and inferrence " or accept it as "para normal". I am pretty sure Agasthiya munivar was much smarter than I was (if indeed he wrote those palm leaves). Having said that, the people who do business with the leaves might be bogus, but maybe Agastiyar was not !!
I dont know what has happened to the links.
It was in Anjal inaimathi fonts. Which would have also been difficlt to read.
I will see if I have the article series in tscii with me. If I have, I will convert it to unicode and post it in one of the blogs and give you the link.
Its better to study the system and see if it works or not.
A lot of things cannot work; but they do work. A lot of things cannot be done; but still there are people who do them.
Varma kalai is a mysterious art. So is acupuncture.
We must learn, study.
If there is truth in them, then they must be put to good use to serve humanity.
If we dispel them as myths or humbug, then humanity will lose something that rightfully belongs to them which have been given by our forebears.
That would be a waste. An uncalled for waste.
jaybee, i would really appreciate if you can forward me your article..
i am writing a post about this attitude.. will post it today.
:-)
I have already dug out the old mails that I wrote in Tamil.net email group in 1997.
That bulk of mails formed the main part of my book on 'Naadi JOthidam'.
I have changed them into tscii and yesterday started posting them in Agathiyar email group. I am also refurbishing the article.
I will be converting it into unicode and will be posting it in a blog.
I wll also put it up in wikipaedia.
:-)
So.....
You have started all this chain of events.
:-)
ஜே பீ, உங்க புத்தகத்தோட தலைப்பு, யார் வெளியீடு , இந்த விவரங்களை சொல்லுங்களேன் ?
வாங்கி படிக்கறேன் !!
:)
sundar jaybee sir is one very knowledgeable person - especially from this side of the world ;)
avar sohlanalum paravaleh ill give his blog ad ;p
http://kadaaramweb.blogspot.com/
just hes stopped blogging coz he hasn't gotten the right interaction ;)
visithra, thanks a ton.
i have been reading his stuff. real good.
jaybee sir, I can see why you are not getting the right interactions. you seem to have a knack of doing reaserch to support your conclusions with data. anyone who studies eastern thought with the western method or vice versa has the same issue. I have seen americans who are trying to learn homeopathy or naturopathy being called quacks !!
Hello Guys,
It is very worrisome to see future pillars of India(or USA) are thinking in the line of Nadi Jothidam and going backwards in time. Come on guys, these guys are fooling around. It is very evident. Let me introduce myself, I am a doctor here in USA. I went with one of my friends to Vaitheeswara Koil. I would not have visited in first place. I went to give a marriage invitation to my friend in Chidambaram. I was driven to Chidambaram by another friend of mine who insisted in going there. I was actually watching initially about what they were doing with my friend. Let me tell why I do not believe those guys, point by point. If someone else has valid argument, please contribute.
1. Nadi jothidam basically means jothidam when someone really 'SEEKS' it. Thats why its called Nadi jothidam. This is the explanation given by them. Its really not connected to pulse(Nadi in tamil),hahahah.
2. Basic flaw: They advertise that all the future has been written by Agathiyar several years back and each individual has a 'Olai'. But, my question is, there are more than 100 Nadi jothidam centers in Vaitheeswaran koil and they have a branch near Kurtallam or somewhere else too, hahahahahaa. Did agathiyar make photocopies of those innumerous 'Olai's??? Every center says, they have an Olai for you.
3. They ask you several questions. They get the answers from you. I mean, they do it really cleverly(thats why they survive). They get the hints from you. They ask you to say, yes or no. And even before starting the session, they tell you that, if you do not give real information, finding your Olai will be delayed. They ask you so many leading questions like, your name is 5 letters, 6 letters, related to a god, things like that. They have the protocol or the knack of getting there(you can give that 50 rupees or 100 rupees for that question asking ability, hahahahahha). What they finally do is, they arrive at your Nakshathiram, year of birth, day of birth(somehow, by astrological calculations like this nakshathiram means, he is born in this month). They finally arrive at the Jathagam squares(rasi squares). Then, its no different from a regular astrologers who tells you the effects of Sani or Chevvai, guru and all these folks, hahahhahhaha. The interrogation is very clever and they should be employed in the jails to get information from prisoners.
4.They go to the room in 15 minutes, if they are not able to get adequate information from you. They tell you that your olai is not in the bundle what he has now. So, he goes in to get another olai. But, he really is not getting any olai from inside. He goes inside and corraborates all the information he asked from you. Like, name is 5 letter, name is one of Murugan's names, one brother and one sister things like that. So, he also calculates, like how to get more information from this guy then he comes back. Then, again same leading questions and he gets adequate information. He gets adequate information, but he does not say that he got the olai in the bundle that he has, because you will ask for it and will look at it. Here is the crucial juncture and they are extremely clever in playing this. He reaches a conclusion for himself that all data are adequate and he tells you that your information is not in this olai bundle. He also tells you that, he is going to get the last bundle for the day and if there is no olai for you, you have to come again. You will ask, how is he going to get the bundle(I asked). He says, may be from other branch, hahahahahhahahh. So, he goes in and you go nail biting, ahhahahha, thinking that your money is gone or what,hhahhahahhahaa. Finally, our Nadi jothidar comes in 10-15 minutes and says that it took him time find out the last bundle. He goes again asking you leading questions. This time, very irrelevant questions to make it seem that he is really looking to find. After a few minutes, he says that he has found out your Olai. My god, your face lights up in astonishment. You ask him that can I see the Olai?(I did). He shows you the Olai calmly, and my god,all the information is there in one Olai in the form of a tamil song(you can sing in any ragam, haahhaha). What an achievement, wow. Our Nasa scientist believes it and is very proud of India and its powers, hahaaahahha.
5. What happened really? He got the information already. Goes in saying that he has not got the Olai. Goes in, takes an Olai and types the information on a fresh olai(of course, it is made to look old and dirty). He inserts into a bundle of crap Olais and brings it before you. He goes in after that and regular jathagam squares come to play after this.(I am not blaming the jathagam here, its going to take me another page to argue, hahahahha). So, basically he tells you the jadhagam palangal.
6. Am I building up my own imaginations? One would certainly ask this question as I keep on telling my views. Here are the valid arguments and evidences. First of all,the olai he showed us had tamil letters clearly written. But, when agathiyar was there(if at all he lived, hahaaahha), Tamil alphabets were very different. I myself have seen old Olais of my Grandfather who used to have them in side a small hole at the back of Sami pictures in his ancient house. Next one is beyond everybody's imagination. I wanted to prove myself as I believed,my friends would not accept my theory. I have to show them a valid evidence, right? I secretly took (stole) one of those Olais when he went inside to bring another one. I brought that Olai home. First, I asked my Grandfather about the NadiJothidam. He had a high respect for this. He told me his experience with this and his astonishment. Then, I handed him the stolen Olai and I asked him to read it. He read it and asked me what is this. I asked him how many years old is this olai. He said, definitely not more than 200 years as his olais were around 200 years old and they were very different. He also pointed out that the olai writer they used was not very crisp like a surgical blade so you can see lots of blemishes while writing. He pointed out that this is not an old olai first of all. Then, he asked me who gave this to me. I told him, I stole this one from Vaitheeswaran koil, his favourite nadi jothidam. ahahhaahhhaa. He was really surprised like everyone else in the house. Even then, he came to me (after half an hour of research with that olai) and said, you might have gone to a duplicate Nadi Jothidam, ahhahahhahahah. My goodness, you can never make people believe you. What else can you show and prove other than this? ahahahhahahha.
I was keeping that Olai with me. I was thinking about Carbon dating that Olai. Then I found out, its really an expensive process and this olai really does not deserve it. If I were on a mission and someone sponsors it, I would certainly go again and steal another olai, hahahahhahah.
Anyway, the bottom line is, its humbug. They are nothing different from Magicians. All of us know and even magicians tell you that its not real, its a magic and an art that can be learnt with some difficulty. This is not even that range of art, ahhahahaha. This is a good interrogation skill. By the way,they make a lot of money and send you the cassette to USA or UK. They might have already started overseas branch. If I am on the money making spree, I would certainly bring one of them here and make a huge amount of money in USA and UK as you guys are going to pay in dollars. I can make the Olais very fast with the technology here, like laser printing olais, ahhahahhahahah. You guys will still believe it. Forgive me for the long explanation. But, if somebody gets clear about this after reading this, thats the victory for my effort. Thanks very much for your time.
Yours,
Anand Subramanian,
Detroit, Michigan.USA. email:Owlanand@yahoo.com
dear dr. anand,
no one is endorsing nadi josiyam here. no one is believing it per se either . at least not me. the reason i wrote a long comment and a followup earlier is because there are a lot of things in our culture which are rejected instantly by our own people because we have a very low attitude to our own past. you may be right and nadi josiyam may be a fraudulent thing. it might be a fancy way to promote hindu astrology (which is another thing people find hard to believe).
:)
once again, you prove my point. just because you work for NASA does not mean you should have an instinctive hate for things you dont understand. i will fully concede to you that naadi is a fraud, provided there is plain and simple proof (which you seem to have) !!
if einstein predicts there are black holes people dont mock him. they give him a nobel prize. years later some dude proves it to be true. i just ask for the same expectation when it comes to eastern science and art. prove it or disprove it with data. if you cant disprove it, wait (even if it means a few decades) before you say it is false..
have a good one..
Hi,
Even I have the similar kind of experiances in my life....
This realizes there is some force behine us and make us to play.If we really think about it.it is amazing!!
Well, I read all the 19 comments posted hered. I am residint in India. My name is Sreeja. I ahve not physically visited this naadi jothidam centre, But my parents and uncle ahve visited and they were told some information. Let me tell u my father's point of view or his experiences. For my father, he does not know his correct tiem of his birth. He told me that his jhadhagam is also a genuine true one becuase that was not written at the time of his birth.
When he visited naadi jothidam centre in chennai, the things he ehard about what kindof person he is, his field of work, all the information to some extent does not match. actually, he knew his nakshatra, the date of birth, but the time alone, he does not know, that is his jhadhagam was written some time after his birth,
Then it clearly says that this nadi jhodhidam is purely an astrology thing,, and the olais they tell is all rubbish. this is my point of view. When my father asked why the information they told him were not correct, he got reply as when people nadi vandha dhaan nadi jhodhidam tells them the true facts, if they come with half minded, then they will not get their correct information.
Well, i shoudl also add that naadi jhodhidham, the old concept of agasthiyar period may b true but what this present world tells is purely for money/cash. So we dont ahve to actually believe this.
Keep open mind to accept the unknown. To my experience if you can pull out the correct oolai then every thing will be true from NAADI JODHIDAM. The main and difficult part is to get your correct oolai. Before you go to see any NAADI JODHIDAR make sure your date of birth , time are correct. Because when the parents wrote the horroscope most of the time they must have told the approximate time & date of birth of a child. According to Tamil Astrology from 6 AM to next day morning 6AM. But According to English the date changes after midnight. Before you go to check astrologhy of any kind make sure your informations are correct.
hi
i had a plan to go to meet those people by this week end
but everybody is saying various things
so getting confused to proceed with it
actually but my husband is a hard worker and talented personality too
getting problem to be placed in a good company
thats y v made this decision
so people whenever facing such tragedies they need these things to face
but who is the authority to proove these things
people who has faith in god definitely belive these things too
isn't it
if there is a good thing na surely negative forces could occur over there
Can anyone tell me the adress of original Naadi Jothida Nilayam? I am interested in " Naadi Jhothida " I don't know with whom I have to contact to get the actual Naadi Jhothida Kurippukal.Waiting for your reply
my parents went to this agastiya nadi jyodidam place in east tambaram (new state bank colony) in chennai.
:)
I personally went to this Nadi jyodidam It is perfectly correct and amazing thing, i was really stunned when the reader gave all my name, my parents name and career and education background without getting any inputs from me i just need to answer yes or no for the questions asked by the reader.
Also he said my past, present and future wherein i could say my past and present details given by him is true so i am satisfied with this jyodidam and i belive on this. For those who said this is purely fraud or bogus from my personal experience i would say this is true and have to believe the facts which could be predicted...